| Kirjoittaja | Viesti | ||
     Janne Sirén Käyttäjätunnus: jtsiren Rekisteröity: 9-2010 |
Greetings to whom it may concern. I have had this idea in my head for some time, and since we’ve been discussing it over on the Finnish Amiga Users Group “Saku” Discord, I thought I’d share – just in case one of the many creative minds and hands in our extended Amiga community would ever feel inspired to try implementing something like it! Please feel free to share the idea and make it happen too.  I’m dreaming of a new Amiga capable of running the current state of classic 68k and “next-gen” PowerPC Amiga in one – mostly on real hardware instead of emulation but built from parts that are readily available these days. Developments like large FPGAs, PiStorm for easy and speedy 68k replacement (the “mostly” part of the no-emulation), 3D printing and custom mechanical keyboards easily available online, as well as availability of mid-range PowerPC chips from the embedded market suggest what I’m saying is at least not completely out there. My dream Amiga would come in a small case, be licensed – perhaps now even with Commodore – and be able to run super-fast AmigaOS 3.x as well as run reasonably AmigaOS 4.x and hopefully MorphOS too, mostly on hardware. I wouldn’t try to compete with the best PowerPC hardware but provide something mid-level, as I know the whole system is already a tall order as it is. FPGA would provide AGA compatibility in hardware (simulation) and there would need to be some reasonably priced RTG (ReTargetable Graphics, i.e. some modernish display chip) available to both processors, but again the RTG would not need to be the best of the best – I am not an expert, but perhaps PiStorm could provide this RTG as well. I think the pieces of this puzzle pretty much already exist: 1. FPGA AGA that would work in AmigaOS 3.x mode, with a slight tinge of “Hombre” in this design for those who remember 2. PiStorm for a super-fast “68k” in AmigaOS 3.x mode, no need for legacy chips and fast, upgradeable for even faster 3. PowerPC chip on the motherboard, preferably with AltiVec (but AltiVec not mandatory if prohibitive), something mid-range, economical and energy efficient 4. An RTG solution for the PowerPC mode, also available to the 68k mode 5. Custom mechanical keyboard with Amiga-suitable layout 6. Case could be 3D printed at start, hopefully finding a market for a professional run Amiga licensing is also now hopefully simpler with Cloanto’s Amiga Corp, Peri Fractic & co.’s Commodore and new management at AmigaOS 4.x’s Hyperion sounding like ready and reasonable to do business with. The MorphOS Team’s continued readiness to collaborate with new hardware was also recently proven, again, with the Mirari project. The machine would work in two modes: 1. Classic Amiga: AmigaOS 3.x compatible mode with 68k (provided by PiStorm), FPGA AGA and the PowerPC available as PowerUp/WarpUp co-processor expansion (option: PowerPC could be disabled for 68k only) 2. Next-gen Amiga: PowerPC native mode, similar to AmigaOne/Pegasos hardware, in which case the 68k and FPGA AGA would be disabled (although it would be interesting if any benefit could be derived from FPGA AGA being accessible in this mode as well) Slap on licenses for all three operating systems, or at least the two AmigaOS ones and compatibility with MorphOS, and it would be a ready-made box to enjoy pretty much everything Amiga. If need be, all the operating systems could be sold separately too, of course. Personally, I would definitely dual or triple boot it in all three to keep up with developments as well as enjoy the old… I know such a system would be fairly expensive but given the Raspberry Pi for PiStorm (or equivalent) could be supply yourself and the mechanical keyboard could be a separate order (users could also substitute it with any keyboard they have), and with an FPGA and a mid-range PowerPC, it sounds at least somewhat doable cost-wise – nothing too different from what we have seen in retro community projects, like the Foenix Retro Systems or above-mentioned Mirari. And since this new system would not be trying to create a new software platform – it would just be leveraging the existing Amiga software platforms and capabilities – the volumes wouldn’t need to cover the creation of a whole new software market (which is an issue for the likes of MEGA65). It would just have to cost and sell enough for the makers to be paid. As a niche product, a labour of love to the makers for sure, but we’ve seen stranger things in the retro computing market. It could also offer an interesting new market for the PowerPC “Amiga” operating system makers, since not everyone in the retro community is going to buy big, dedicated AmigaOne hardware or old Macs or some such, to run PowerPC “Amiga” operating systems. But a small, dedicated box that could run both the best of the old and the latest developments could bring in a new wave of retro or “alt” customers. You’d buy it for one side but be tempted to try the other… And if all things went well, maybe one day it could be offered as a cardboard-boxed full-set – the ultimate Amiga – and sold in reasonable numbers to retro computing enthusiasts as a sort of “ZX Spectrum Next” of the Amiga community – the machine for the next decade. Or at least the machine to enjoy all the great content from the past few decades – the Amiga pizza-box we dreamed of? What do you think? Feel free to tear it apart, but most importantly feel free to implement it, anyone. From Finland with love, Janne Sirén from Finnish Amiga Users Group “Saku” | ||
| Janne Sirén Käyttäjätunnus: jtsiren Rekisteröity: 9-2010 |
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| Janne Sirén Käyttäjätunnus: jtsiren Rekisteröity: 9-2010 |
Discord-linkki: https://discord.com/channels/1219181842503176274/1226842056970731550/1408894218486812713 Saku-serveri Discordissa ja kokeilussa Matrixissa: https://sakulehti.fi/keskustelu | ||
| Janne Sirén Käyttäjätunnus: jtsiren Rekisteröity: 9-2010 |
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| Janne Sirén Käyttäjätunnus: jtsiren Rekisteröity: 9-2010 |
Discord-linkki: https://discord.com/channels/1219181842503176274/1226842056970731550/1412866676499681362 Saku-serveri Discordissa ja kokeilussa Matrixissa: https://sakulehti.fi/keskustelu "Bottom line: $250k-500k total to get to market..." | ||
| Janne Sirén Käyttäjätunnus: jtsiren Rekisteröity: 9-2010 |
"OP here, great to see so much lively debate over the proposal. To clarify one thing, I did not suggest the "dream Amiga" to move anything forwards, but to create a platform where everything existing Amiga could be enjoyed. I do not see this much different from what other retro projects are trying to do. Amiga simply is more advanced than most current FPGA retro platforms can manage due to the PowerPC element. Maybe the possible future EmuPPC on a Raspberry Pi could handle the PowerPC chip part, I'm not so pedantic about that, but it would be nice to have a piece of new hardware that could handle Amigas old and newer. Even with PowePC there is 25 years of Amiga software already out there. PowerPC is very much "classic" on the Amiga. It has existed longer on the Amiga than Commodore did. I have tried qemu for PowerPC. Terribly slow on my pretty fast PC. Much slower than anything AmigaOne-grade. I get it that it will get there one day, but still, it would be nice to have a piece of dedicated hardware like ZX Spectrum Next for the Amiga... I know we have the Vampire Standalone but no PowerPC there. I look forward to any more thoughts! And anyone interested, feel free to pick this up and inspire your own project. " https://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=1762481&postcount=51 | ||
| Janne Sirén Käyttäjätunnus: jtsiren Rekisteröity: 9-2010 |
People make new retro machines all the time. The likes of Foenix Retro Systems to the Mirari boards, to ZX Spectrum Next to Commodore 64 Ultimate and Vampire V4 Standalone so on. So definitely the market and the maker communities exist for solutions like this. I do not expect anyone to pick the idea up as it is, but if it encourages someone to explore bringing PowerPC and classic Amiga back together (they started together with PowerUp) in some manner in the new retro machine scene, that would be a worthy outcome in my books. I doubt I am the only one who would like to enjoy the existing PowerPC Amiga and Amiga-like content (MorphOS) together with classics, but has a hard time coming up with a modern setup to do that. qemu is too slow to run MorphOS. For 68k we have options, but for PowerPC it is very limited and nothing really cross-over since the old PowerUp boards... We do know Michal Schulz is considering EmuPPC after Emu68k, so maybe the PiStorm PPC is not so for out there anymore!" https://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=1762591&postcount=54 | ||
| Janne Sirén Käyttäjätunnus: jtsiren Rekisteröity: 9-2010 |
Discord-linkki #amiga-kanavallemme: https://discord.com/channels/1219181842503176274/1226842056970731550/1413142757949837313 Saku-serveri Discordissa ja kokeilussa Matrixissa: https://sakulehti.fi/keskustelu
Itse kyllä ohittaisin Risk Mitigation -vaiheen, koska Vampire V4 Standalone käytännössä tekee jo pitkälti tuota 68k-puolta. "Dream Amigan" olennaisin pointti olisi tavalla tai toisella yhdistää PowerPC taas kerran klassiseen Amigaan, ensimmäisen kerran sitten PowerUp-tuotteiden 1990-luvulla. Mutta minun on helppo puhua, koska en tee muuta kuin puhun. |