| Kirjoittaja | Viesti | ||
     Janne |
--- Here is a simple strategic view of things as we see them: 1. Pegasos a. Upgradeable - G3 to G4 to Dual CPUs, etc. (G5?) b. Scalable - can be stacked, i.e., maybe three/four boards in a case giving potentially +8 Ghz of CPU speed at a very affordable price or it can be rack mounted and stacked "up to the ceiling." c. Modifiable - it can be made smaller omitting elements to a base station for a mobile device (eclipsis). It can be turned into a Home Server that sits with the Home Entertainment Center/Theater (Psylent) or really scaling back to a simple Satellite DTV receiver (looking for a cool name). d. It becomes an increasingly broad and stable Development Platform for the future and all above. e. Offers an alternative hardware platform to various development communities, attracting innovation and creativity. 2. MorphOS a. Starts on the Pegasos b. Runs on Macs c. 3. Next stuff a. Ties into smart cards b. Morphs *everything* together! That is the basic game plan. R&B --- er...sorry Reading again...questions we can find: @mips 1. Please check out www.videomicrowave.com. Only the French version works, but you get the idea. We are putting together what we hope will be a great package there. It will include many good programs including many things from Felix Schwarz. We hope it will be the next "toaster." 2. X86 probably not soon , but with AMD and IBM collaborating who knows what might happen. In the meanwhile, would a Bernie Morphithlon release be interesting? We would have to get him to agree first. 3. We are still tweaking the eclipsis description, but we have some "cluges" running (not good enough yet to be called prototypes). We want it to be very small and we are still debating the keyboard. Fact is, SMS users manage with a telephone keypad and a touch screen can work too. We have not decided yet. 4. We are doing anything official with Merlancia and do NOT have any agreements with Ryan to do anything. If he wants to buy Pegasos mainboards and configure them in an MCC case more power to him, but we have NO formal relationship. 5. Butterflies do have a way of slipping under the radar screen...we will try to sneak up on the big guys like that. @Glaucus OS support for CSS -- is that what you are really saying? We are working on that now. There were several approaches discussed at recent Genesi meeting: •Contact one of the non-AmigaOS commercial web browser developers and invite them to port their browser to MorphOS. Some possibilities included Opera, Planet Web, etc. •Contact the existing AmigaOS web browser teams and discuss the possibilities of having them upgrade their browsers. The AWeb team are working to upgrade their source code to work with the GCC compiler, which has become a major cross-platform standard; meanwhile David Gerber, the current author/maintainer of Voyager, spent a great deal of time in the past year rewriting the display engine to be extremely flexible, but he is currently working hard on the Ambient desktop and has enough on his plate with it and other smaller projects that have been handed to him. •Hire a team to port an existing HTML engine to MorphOS either as a full browser or as a standard library to be offered to other browser developers. Suggestions for this focused on Gecko from the Mozilla project, and KHTML which is part of the KDE UI for Linux. Regarding porting an existing engine, several people suggested porting Phoenix, which is based on Mozilla's engine. The problem with Phoenix is that the browser itself is written in Gecko, meaning the entire engine would have to be working before it could be tested. Additionally, this would add a double layer of unoptimized, ported code, which would result in an extremely slow browser. Lastly, it was mentioned that the Mozilla code base was written using POSIX standards, which are not an integral part of MorphOS, unlike most other operating systems (or at least partially in the case of Windows). Another possiblity might be to bring Rebol to the platform... Here are some more notes from the meeting: The group felt that Rebol was, if nothing else, another language to have on the Genesi platform. Many of the Rebol's strengths would work well for MorphOS – it is small, supports a wide range of Internet standards, and has built up a solid community around it. One idea the group came up with was to write a tech support program that would be an off-line version of the support web site. Users would be able to read all of the product documentation off-line through this self-contained application, and synchronize with the server when updates were made. Additionally tech support requests could be posted through this program rather than having to log in on-line. On an aside, this would also solve the CSS problem from a different angle. @ jumpship er...ok? R&B P.S. Madgun68, we will be focused on supporting the platform and developing the core technology (the hardware/OS combination). Anyone/everyone else, can be working on open source initiatives, etc. Our objective is to enable others in these areas. If we can get things moving this way, we will attract developers to the platform. The community will grow correspondingly and bring in the resources we will need to do everything else we want to do. What do you think? --- @takemehomegrandma About Mac-on-Morph...Ralph should be receiving his new PowerBook G4 soon for that very purpose. In the meanwhile, Mac-on-linux works quite well so you can do whatever you decide to do on the Pegasos already... BTW, Samuel Rydh who developed Mac-on-Linux was with us at CES. We were very pleased to have him there with us. @Crumb Did you see this earlier post on www.amiga.org about Morphithlon? We made it yesterday. Sincerely, R&B --- Hi Damien, We sure did...it was a good one. That is why we posted parts of it here. We were actually thinking of posting the whole thing somewhere... BTW, MorphOS even has its own icon and article section on OSNews.com now (see http://www.osnews.com/topic.php?icon=69). We will encourage this kind of interest and hope to spark an increasingly broader sphere of developers and users. This will bring in new ideas and people to the "Community." Creativity and innovation will follow. Sincerely, R&B P.S. We think you are right about x86...lets wait to see what cooks up from the IBM/AMD R&D kitchen. --- @Paul We just started talking to Bernie about it. Of course, we are very interested in working with him. R&B --- 6/8 Genesi needs YOU! anonymous (20-Jan-2003, 03:47:15) - [ Answer | Singleview ] When you get kids and a dog what will you sign your statements with? Rachel, Bill, Kiddo and Fido ? Do you always write your statements together? 8/8 Genesi needs YOU! Raquel and Bill (20-Jan-2003, 10:02:54) - [ Answer | Singleview ] Hi, Anonymous...we already had kids and dogs and there are no more planned for the moment. So as we are together all the time, it will just stay R&B. Thanks Coder for the support! Raquel and Bill | ||
| Jupp3 |
 Titenkään asia ei (toivottavasti) näin ole Paljon asiaa tällä miehellä... | ||
| KimmoK |
Niin paljon on suunnitteilla ettei kaikkea ole mahdollista tehdä, toivottavasti priorisoivat hommansa fiksusti (ei tyyliin AI). Yhteisön kannalta toivoisi mm. kypsää MOS1:stä CSPPC ja BPPC koneille ennen kuin haikailevat Mac/PDA/STB version perään tai että alkavat nuita muita softia (vaatinee ~miljoona tai miljoonia koodirivejä jotta toimiva STB/PDA saadaan aikaiseksi) tehdä. Tuloksia näkyy käyttispuolella, toivottavasti myös jatkossa. Sitten kun kaupallinen MOS saavuttaa käyttökelpoisuudessaan ja toimintojen tasossa AmigaOS3.9:n, niin Hyperionilla voi olla miltei mahdoton tehtävä saada AOS4 myyntiä liikkeelle. | ||
| Janne |
KimmoK: Mitä et-usko-tuloksia? Minä näen tuloksia koko ajan. Mitä on luvattu mitä ei ole ilmestynyt (ajallaan tai kohtuullisen myöhästymisen jälkeen)? Linkkejä viesteihin? Olen oikeasti kiinnostunut. Sikäli ymmärrän että Amiga-maailman tapahtumat yleisesti selvästi vaativat tiettyä skeptistä suhtautumista, mutta jotenkin tuntuu että tässä on kysymys enemmästä kuin vain siitä. bbrv:llä on keskusteleva sävy asioista. Esim. Morphithlon-juttua ei väitettykään ilmestyvän, kerrottiin vain mielenkiintoinen tieto että he olisivat sellaisesta kiinnostuneita ja ottaneet Bernieen yhteyttä. Ei siinä edes ollut mitään hypeä eikä lupauksia että tuotetta tulisi. Mieluummin näin päin kuin executive updateja joissa announcataan milloin mitäkin... Kerrottiin myös että Ralph on saanut tai saamassa uuden Macin sitä varten että MorphOS saataisiin portattua sille koska gameplanissa on että MorphOS toimii aikanaan Macilla. Jos tätä porttia ei koskaan tapahdu tai asia jää täysin selittämättä, siinä on toki yksi esimerkki. Mutta pitänee odotella ja katsoa miten käy. He eivät tehneet asiasta grand announcementia, vaan kertoivat enemmänkin vain avoimesti suunnitelmistaan. Ja toki bbrv:n viestit ovat lobbausta tai markkinointia, miten sen nyt haluaa ilmaista. Mutta niissä on myös selvää kiinnostusta siihen mitä yhteisössä ajatellaan ja tehdään. Fresh. Toki se on bisnes-kiinnostusta (voi olla enemmänkin mutta sellaisesta on vaikea mennäa arvailemaan mitään perusteltavaa) mutta siinä nyt ei ole mitään pahaa. Siitä olen samaa mieltä että liian paljon on suunnitelmia että kaikkea voisi tehdä. Useinhan näin onkin. Tietävät tämän varmasti itse ja se näkyy myös viesteistä: pyytävät usein kiinnostuneita yhteistyötahoja ottamaan yhteyttä jne. Aika näyttää osaavatko priorisoida oikein, ehkä osaavat, ehkä eivät. Kuten sanottua, voivat mennä nurin vaikka huomenna for all I know. Mutta en vilpittömästi ymmärrä tätä bbrv:seen henkilötasolla kohdistuvaa skeptisyytä. Amiga-yhteisössä heidät on leimattu aivan omituisella tavalla milloin mistäkin - milloin haukuttu epämoraalisiksi Pegasoksen esittelemisestä armeijalle tai lasten jalkapallojoukkueen tukemisesta... No, kaipa teillä on syynne. Minun on sitä vaikea nähdä. Ehkä siksi etten koskaan aloittanutkaan lukemaan niitä väärällä jalalla, vaan annoin Bill Buckille, MorphOSille & co:lle ihan saman mahiksen kuin Bill McEwenille ja AmigaDE:llekin aikoinaan. Jälkimmäinen porukka pilasi sen mahdollisuuden, mutta bbrv ei ole vielä onnistunut moisessa. Sen sijaan tuntuu että moni muu yhteisössä (enkä sano että KimmoK olisit sellainen, en tiedä) on aloittanut lukemaan Genesistä (ja sen muodostaneista edeltäjistä) väärällä jalalla ja nimikultti on sokaissut. Tuntuu siltä että ihmisten silmissä Genesi saa tehdä kaiken sata kertaa paremmin ennenkuin he saavat puoltakaan siitä arvostuksesta, kiinnostuksesta tai kiitoksesta jota Amiga Inc. on saanut vuosien saatossa (ehkei tosin enää, liika on liikaa) tekemättä mitään kunnollista. Enkä vilpittömästi usko että liikaa liioittelen, vaikka tietysti heittämäni kertaluvut ovatkin vain esimerkin vuoksi. | ||
| miksuh |
Tottakai on oikein hyvä, että on suunnitelmia tulevaisuutta varten. Sitähän itsekin joku aika sitten sanoin, että toivosin edes jonkunlaista tietoa siitä mihin suuntaan Pegasosta ja MorphOS:a oikeen ollaan viemässä. Siitä kun ei oikein ollut mitään tietoa. Hienoa, jos saavat edes osan suunnitelmista joskus toteutettua, onnea vaan genesin äijille siihen. Mutta joiltakin osin tuntuu kyllä, että Genesis, ihan samoin kun Amiga Inc/Hyperion, yrittää nyt haukata kerralla isomman palasen kun pystyy nielemään... Pegasoksen takana on kuitenkin pikkufirmoja ihan yhtälailla kun toisellakin puolella. Toivottavasti onnistuvat toki Aika näyttää mitä tuosta tulee. | ||
| Janne |
| ||
| KimmoK |
(ja eikös pegasos ja morphos ole aivan muiden miesten ansiota kuin bbrv:n, vai olenko missannut jotain) | ||
| Janne |
| ||
| Janne |
Well, interesting...never thought I would see a thread like this here... Thanks redrumloa. Raquel and my parents like me too. Seriously, please do not mix too many things here with too much reality. We did post a few more substantial thoughts over on the "What America has to look forward to...." thread, especially the second post. Have a look if your are reading all this... About, Mike...Mike, you probably are a nice guy if we ever had the chance to get to know each other. You believe in your cause and you promote it. The activity in itself is more than most. Good for you. Our problem with you was that you passed yourself off as a "journalist" but blatantly co-mingled your opinions and prejudiced into the articles you wrote. Your posts and statements were often inaccurate (of course, that is different than posting an opinion here). We tried to discuss this with you nicely, but when you persisted we put on the pressure. It worked. You are not considered as seriously as you were before. We did discredit you. Sorry about that. Tough stuff. Learn from it. In the meanwhile, cut the crap: we never ask you to review our product, you ask us. We never demanded any “loyalty,” nor did we ever make any legal threats against you. Learn to be honest with yourself! OK, so I just destroyed my nice guy reputation in one clean swipe. Maybe, maybe not. Management and leadership are not the same. The Forums seen here, on ANN and Amiga-News are not as good as they can be when they are cluttered with junk. We try to stick to the high ground, but if we have to take the “fight” to a lower level we will. When the “anonymous cowards” and FUD mongers feel the heat and a means of accountability is enforced then better things can happen… Watch your lanes! R&B P.S. redrumloa, is that avatar the real you?! | ||
| Janne |
Glaucus, you need to see a little of the world. Been out of Canada for more than a vacation? For the rest of the Canadians out there, we like your country -- a bit too much worrying about who is speaking what language, but generally a very open and non-discriminatory culture. Actually, the Canadian Military has provided the most varied and widely disseminated units to the UN Peace Keeping Forces for years. Canada served as a counterbalance to US and European centric issues. Many feel Canada has the "best little Army" in the world. We would agree with that (and Canadians make good hockey players too). Anyway, Glaucus, do you know the difference between "reel" and "real" life. Maybe, you have been playing too many video games, watching too many movies and spending entirely too much time behind your computer. Have you ever experienced real violence? Do you know how valuable security and safety are? You live in a very safe country. Do you know what it is like to live in one that is not? How did this thread start? "Anti-US anger grows in Kuwait"...are you suggesting it would have been better just to let Saddam stay in Kuwait in 1990? That is how the whole thing started. After all, Saddam said it was part of Iraq anyway. Yes, it would have certainly been more easy. Sure, why not just let him overrun a soveriegn country. "Who cares, we live somewhere else." Have you considered the source of the article? Have you read anything else about the situation? Dealing with the kind of world and conflict we face demands intellect. Are you thinking about this now? Watch what happens. The future will not unfold as we expect -- all packaged in a convenient way so we can understand it before it happens. Life is more sublime and fortunately it seems that the ones making the most difficult decisions are thinking.... BTW, didn't this same sort of thing just happen? Did it play out as expected? We do not think this will either. OK, this is not about computers or one OS against another. Are there are thoughtful readers out there? Weigh in please. In the meanwhile, (for your own good) Glaucus, please read up on your current and more distant history. Sincerely, R&B P.S. Hey Darrin, you on our side for this discussion?... | ||
| Janne |
Hi Gary et al, thoughtful stuff and by the way as part of Phoenix we hope you saw the email to Ants yesterday night our time...we would really like to be working with you. A few short points: 1. Good Guys vs. Bad Guys -- there are some everywhere as you said, but as long as there are bad guys that do bad things there have to be good guys that do "bad" things better. Jefferson said that more eloquently and a little differently: eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. Sad, but true. 2. The United States of America – there are certainly no perfect countries or people, but suffice to say there are many people there that are trying to do their best. In American history, we can say that slavery itself was probably the greatest hypocrisy given the ambitions of the Founding Fathers (which were astounding given the time and the condition of the world at this moment). So too was Suffrage, as women were not giving the right to fully participate in their citizenship until the 1920 and minorities later (that is, the right to vote). Certainly, we could enter into the discussion of the destruction of the cultures of the American Indian and the marginalization of their way of life. When you look closer there is always something to see. Case in point, most Americans today all came in their ancestry from somewhere else…and the ideas came with them. 3. Gary, you live in Japan. What happened in Manchuria beginning in 1931, or how about Korea afterwards and until 1945? Do the Japanese acknowledge this in the schoolbooks of their youth? Just near the Emperor’s Palace in Tokyo there is a statue to General Douglas MacArthur. Why? Today, in Korea many want the US presence removed? Would Koreans have felt the same in 1950-1953? Do we really have to delve into the history of Europe to expose much more difficulties and historical turbulence? It all still happens today. Witness the disintegration of Yugoslavia (initially internally) or the daily challenges in much of Africa. The world is still a dangerous place, but unlike Mountain_Mist we are not overcome by sadness. This is life. It is hard. Good things never come easy and if we want things to get better we have to be willing to do something about them. The first challenge is always to put things into perspective. Time has a funny way of helping us forget about the past. It is too easy to allow yourself to be blown around by the latest opinions. Again, watch what happens with Saddam. A year ago did we not have the same fears about Afghanistan? Cool heads are leading us into this situation. And, contrary to what you may read many nations are quietly collaborating. Each has a role. Watch the drama as it unfolds. This is not 1939. 4. About the future…education and communication – we need more of it. Banishing ignorance and prejudice based on generalizations or hearsay is the spark that gets the ball rolling. Ignorance and intellect are given the same Forum. Freedom is a hard thing for some to deal with. There are many useful things that can be accomplished with a knife. There are other actions possible that are not so constructive. What we do ourselves depends on ourselves. If more people or groups of people are motivated to accomplish something collectively and in harmony it is incredible what the human spirit can overcome and accomplish. We believe if you create an opportunity for people to empower themselves with knowledge and allow them to communicate with people that are culturally and linguistically different you can open up exciting new channels for the betterment of the world. Of course, this power in the hand of another can be manipulated in less scrupulous way, but this is the “human condition” and the sooner we understand that the world is not happening to us, but us to the world, everything takes another perspective. Everyone can make a “difference” in his or her own way. A smile is a good place to start. Writing a computer program to translate one language to another is more time consuming, but has more long-term benefits. You know where we are going… 5. Last word about commercialism…think about the knife. It is the same. Where did capitalism spring? Was it better when people were serfs and bought and sold with the land, where only a chosen few were empowered to rule the lives of many? Usually, the guy with the biggest stick controlled the most people and resources. Everyone spent his or her lives satisfying the will of another. Capitalism sprang from being the best at something and having the opportunity to generate prosperity individually -- in the modern jargon, empowerment (of course, the surronding cultural and social environment had to allow it -- there had the be "law and order" first). Naturally, with this also came the opportunity for deception. Being the “best” just did not mean the practice of a trade (butcher, baker, or candlestick-maker), it meant organizing things like the distribution of those goods from one place to another or even the creation and sale of a concept. Have you seen “wellness” growing on trees? What is the stock market? Anyway, what we have today is the result of thousands of years of evolution. We believe as things increasingly “modernize” the challenge of keeping things in perspective grows and the demand for intellect increases. The Internet coupled with a powerful means of computing and sophisticated but simple medium of communication can lead us to higher plane to deal with all this, but before we are accused of promoting the Pegasos and MorphOS we will stop there… With sincerity, R&B | ||
| Hooligan/DCS |
| ||
| JPQ |
| ||
| Hooligan/DCS |
The STB we are discussing is quite different than what has been attempted historically. The basic version does not have an uplink. It is very inexpensive and it is basic in form and function (but as much for less, remember the C64 slogan was: “it is not how little it costs, it is how much you get”). Interactivity comes through smart cards. This is a satellite television receiver with some memory. The smart card is used to enable elements of the signal. Authorization levels depend on subscription or payment per event/movie (pre-paid or pay-as-you-go). Of course, a more advanced version could be a base station for the eclipsis. Then there is the Psylent (formally Pega-shush)...a 24/7 ISP bundled home server that does not have anything to do with the DMG DTV STB, but EVERYTHING to do with a "state of the art" Home Entertainment Center. Everything begins and advances WITH the Core Technologies, the Pegasos running MorphOS. We can profit from the core technology by adapting it to various "configurations" which will allow us to build the Company and the Developer base. When things are really stable, then there is the mass-market beginning with the sale of the OS/Application to Mac Users...then the hardware...etc. NOW, take all this and combine it with some of the recent ideas we have been discussing with the Phoenix Developer Consortium. Genesi and Phoenix could initiate a VA Software/SourceForge relationship. What we have here is much more than Linux. Genesi owns the IP of the hardware AND the OS. We can leverage off both Open Source and Closed Source virtues while still capturing the valuable hardware revenue. This can be shared with members of Phoenix as Distributors/Integrators of a platform that is INITIALLY oriented to TECHNICALLY oriented people anyway. The sale of Pegasos machines configured with various potential OS's seems to be a unique revenue producing opportunity and MAYBE a "new" way of "selling" the computer...like a multilevel marketing scheme...dingdong...its not the Avon Lady! It is the Phoenix Man with your Pegasos! We could develop a whole tiered system...when you recruit ten Phoenix Distributors you become a Phoenix Flyer! OK, we will not get too carried away, but you get the idea... We are just brain storming, but using the support web site to "answer" the "silly" questions, while setting up Phoenix members in a VA Software/SourceForge like relationship that evolves into unit sales and then maybe System Integrators/Service Providers (like the old LAN/WAN businesses) could be a cool stroke to capture widespread interest once the publicity effort kicks into gear...;-) What do you think? Sincerely, R&B | ||
| Hooligan/DCS |
| ||
| Janne |
Hi Troels, You are clearly not a “silly” person, but you have made a mistake about me and what Raquel and I have been busy doing for the last few years. Perhaps, I misjudged you too. You have to admit the whole furor over the “drunken” post in question surrounded the fact that personal email was posted in a public forum. Something you have just done. Nevertheless, even if I had admitted to having done it myself would it have really made a difference? The whole reaction of nearly all the comments was a bit self-righteous don’t you think? When you make public statements you should be able to substantiate them with facts and from a position of authority. Generally, the intellectual bearing of the ANN message boards at this time and for the subject at hand was low (it is a lot better now!). It was more a mud-slinging contest and we took to the fight intentionally. Frankly, we changed a lot of minds. We also recruited a lot of Developers and formed good relationships with plenty of great people. It was our way of getting reacquainted with the “community.” It worked. I come back at you for your statement about being “amateurish.” Have you been a CEO? How do you define amateurish? Have you worked or been around a “professional” CEO? You see the objective was to understand how you came to this opinion. We wanted to know if you were you a 17-year-old geek or an experienced hardware engineer that had spent the last twenty years at Philips. Knowing this we could evaluate your comment. You came back with a few good suggestions and we took them into consideration as you noted. Thanks. All this comes back to the “trust” issue and this is what has compelled me to write this response. We have been criticized for posting controversial information, for example, concerning the Articia. If you really look back you will see that it was not us that made the first public statements about the problems. When things became too delayed; we sold the Betatester instead of the Pegasos. When we thought we had everything sorted out we exchanged every Betatester returned for a Pegasos, no questions ask. What is it that we have done that has created this sense of mistrust? Please do not confuse serious matters with those that are not and please be specific. It is time this discussion went offline, unless you want to do it here. We can handle it. BTW, about Mai…we have been promised new and old versions of the Articia. We are waiting patiently for them. If we have to wait too long, we will switch to the more expensive IBM chip that does the same thing. We hope to have the next delivery from Mai soon. We know you by your posts and opinions online. We appreciate the need to try to understand your perspective better if you are willing to make the same effort. Hence, we are willing to cover your expenses to travel to Paris and discuss anything you want face to face. While you are here you can visit our other company in Paris that we started after we left VisCorp. Today, that company employs over 900 people and generated over 25 million Euros in revenue in 2002. That Company and our investment in bplan have brought Genesi to this point today. Raquel and I are the Chairman and CEO respectively of the other Company too. Did we do a "good" job there? Seriously, we would be very pleased to meet you and have a decent discussion. This is not a PR stunt. We would do the same for anyone else we thought might be important in advancing the Pegasos and MorphOS. Sincerely, Raquel and Bill P.S. 1) I still think the second post we made on the "What America has to look forward to...." thread is more substantial…, 2) Mike, is there some special reason you are posting here? | ||
| Joanna |
No, toisaalta sitten ei ainakaan enää tarvitsisi ihmetellä mistä korteille saa sopivia muistipiirejä | ||
| KimmoK |
Heps, onko moisia oikeasti. Puoli vuotta sitten "kuulemma" oli vain sellaisia joista puuttui AGP2x. | ||
| Janne |
| ||
| Janne |
...what is Morphithlon?!?! What comes to mind are two possibilities: a) An alternative to the JIT compiler built into MorphOS, providing an Amithlon-like way of running Amiga 68k programs to run on the Pegasos, using the services of the Q-Box. b) A way of running MorphOS on x86 PCs similar to the way Amithlon runs AmigaOS on them. (a) would require an 68 to PPC JIT compiler -- as the Amithlon JIT compiler is somewhat modular, this should "just" require replacing the JIT compiler's backend. However, as a number of 68k instructions are still handled by UAE's 68k emulation, and as the non-GPL license for that code was not granted for "Morphithlon", the overall thing should probably be GPL'ed. (b) would require a PPC to x86 JIT compiler --- a fairly daunting task. Once again, using some GPL'ed code (in this case the interpretative PPC emulator that is part of the GDB distribution) as a starting block would make life much easier, but would result in a need to license the result under the GPL. The question is: should we pay Bernie to do this? We think a Morphithlon release, with say a per year subscription fee for a updating service (like RedHat Network or Ximian) could be profitable. Should we share the subscription fee? What do you "all" think? Sincerely, R&B | ||
| Janne |
"PEGASOS AND THE SET-TOP BOX MAKER A Play by Darrin Cast: Bill Buck – R. Lee Emery Raquel Velasco – Jennifer Lopez Nameless Suit – Bill Clinton Ralph Schmidt – Rick Moranis Ryan Czerwinski – Sir Clive Sinclair Voice of Luca – Benito Mussolini (the only "famous" Italian I can think of)" http://amiga.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5762&forum=1 Hi Darrin, you made us laugh... Take care, sorry we will miss you at CeBIT in Australia. Sincerely, R&B P.S. We really do not think much of Clinton! | ||
| Jon |
| ||
| miksuh |
PPC:ssä on toki rajhallisempi käskykanta mut ei se tarkota et homma olis helppo tai kevyt. | ||
| miksuh |
| ||
| KimmoK |
Enivei, tässä on mielestäni hyvä esimerkki "ongelmasta" bbrv postauksissa: http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1043163757&category=news&number=87 | ||
| miksuh |
| ||
| Janne |
--- Thanks “it’s meeee” for the opportunity to clarify the issue you addressed in such a friendly way. Watch this thread. You will surely see a number of solid, thoughtful responses. That is what these public Forums can provide -- thoughtful and immediate feedback. We use them to understand if our ideas are good or bad. Simple. We are not throwing away anything. For example, Harald Frank just called and suggested there would be a big problem creating Morphithlon if Bernie Meyer tried to use anything that he had developed previously in a “related” project to do so. In the meanwhile, there is a thread over on amiga.org where ideas and opinions are being exchanged about the same subject. We seed the ideas and are picking up a few pointers (see, we just did it again!). Seriously, we like to be working with Bernie anyway as he is a great coder and he could probably do something else if not this… Lets not cross “fixes to business plans” with “marketing surveys.” Do you have anything beyond criticism to add “it’s meeee?” You think maybe you are a business genius with all the answers? Send us an email. We will sign an NDA. Show us how smart you are, please clue us in on your great ideas!… Maybe, it was yesterday’s post on ANN? The VA Software is to SourceForge what Genesi is to the Phoenix Developer Consortium analogue. Is that it? That Genesi might be able to help the Consortium get some financial legs under them by allowing Phoenix members to make some money distributing Pegasos machines? You think there is another organization that could offer Phoenix or a Phoenix-like organization the same opportunity? There is only one Pegasos; there is only one MorphOS. Plus, the IP is all in one place. Please post a list of the competitors that hold the same credentials. There is one fairly large company that has evolved well beyond any ideas we come generate for their benefit. Is there someone else? Do you think an open source based solution can compete with that, especially without a piece of directly associated hardware? Someone else…;-) Where is the value proposition? (Hey, thanks, for giving us the chance to make those plugs again!)…;-) Or, maybe, it was the discussion of the products. Really, do you think there was something truly original there? If so, do you think there is any possible way that any “competitors” reading this would be able to implement such a plan? Nicholas, is of course, right on with his observation…though we would add it will be the “guys and gals” who execute the plan that make the difference (...and besides we are still trying to find a few more to help us! Please send an email to bbrv@genesi.lu if you are interested). Oh, that’s enough for now…lets see what dust that kicks up on this thread as we continue to keep the pressure on the accelerator and guys like “it’s meeee” get smaller and smaller in our rear view mirror…. (and coincidentally less frequently on these boards – these Forums are really becoming quite useful. We appreciate it.). Have a great night! Raquel and Big Mouth Billy! http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1043333424&category=forum&start=1&34#message30 | ||
| Janne |
| ||
| Joanna |
| ||
| Hooligan/DCS |
------------- Way to go Scott! Thanks and keep up the GREAT work...;-) We can send you some posters and T-Shirts if you think the audience would appreciate them. Best regards, R&B -------------- eli ei tarvitse edes ruinata promokrääsää.. sitä annetaan pois kysymättäkin Go Bill! | ||
| Janne |
| ||
| KimmoK |
Niinpä. Onkohan Bill palkannut Petron oman nick:nsä taakse? ;-) | ||
| JPQ |
| ||
| Janne |
Our first week back in Europe after the New Year was an exciting one. We wanted to catch up a little before we made this post. We have plenty of information to share and we know that many of you need an update. Here goes… Most importantly, we cannot ship the Pegasos if we cannot make it! We met with Mai at CES and Mai confirmed they will ship the old Articias to us. Once we get them we need to mount them on the April PCB and then the mainboard. We know there is plenty of frustration out there for those of you that want the Pegasos. They will be available again soon. We will continue to sell the Pegasos with the old Articia until we get the new samples and can test them. In the meanwhile, we have been working with a replacement chip that is a bit more expensive, but it seems to work fine. In this case, we will have two suppliers for this component and will not be restricted in the future. All the other components required are in stock and ready for assembly. Just to recap: 1. The Pegasos is: a. Upgradeable – from G3 to G4 to Dual CPUs, etc. (IBM will release 64 bit PPC in March, after the G5 (?), and as recently announced IBM and AMD are going to do R&D together, etc.). As IBM and Motorola share the IP of the PPC, we think they will be around and competitive with Intel into the future -- especially with the move toward more mobility and less CPU power consumption. See the latest IBM announcement. Of course, that means a Pegasos II, or a PegasosPlus, etc., etc. b. Scalable - can be stacked, i.e., 1) three/four dual G4 boards in a case would give potentially +8GHz of CPU speed in a "desktop" machine at a very affordable price (this is only a good marketing pitch -- "8GHz on the desktop") or 2) later, multiple boards can be rack mounted and stacked "up to the ceiling." c. Modifiable - it can be made smaller omitting elements to a base station for a mobile device (eclipsis or even an EyeCam). It can be turned into a Home Server that sits with the Home Entertainment Center/Theater (Psylent) or really scaling back to a simple Satellite DTV receiver (looking for a cool name, this is the project we have been contracted for -- in the end we will share the IP). d. In the meanwhile the Pegasos becomes an increasingly stable and a viable Development Platform for the future and all the projects mentioned. e. Finally, it offers an alternative hardware platform to various OS specific development communities, attracting innovation and creativity. It has Open Firmware (which also makes it easy for peripheral developers to develop hardware that works with the platform). Check out http://www.osnews.com/topic.php?icon=69 and then return to the OSNews home page. This is the kind of broad market interest we need. We already have a number of LinuxPPC distros running (and Mac-on-Linux) and an agreement to port OpenBSD has been executed and we are working with Rebol already. 2. MorphOS a. Starts on the Pegasos and grows increasingly functional b. Runs on Macs by the end of 2003. This will be marketed as a special application for Mac that does not "run" on the host hard drive (but can). We will sell the application, the OS is just there to make it work or just sell the OS. The application could be related to a smart card with the OS in the ROM of the reader, or a CD with a cool game, etc., etc. This could also be done “as a cross-platform class toolkit, such as wxwindows, that assumes the native look of the respective target OS. Users wouldn't object to applications written with such a toolkit (they wouldn't know) and developers certainly wouldn't object to the idea of selling to multiple platforms simultaneously.” Anyone want to port wxwindows to MorphOS? Anyway, until then, MorphOS will be bundled with the Pegasos and be available at no additional cost. c. Provides the ultimate 'connectivity' through the various efforts (mobile, satellite, desktop, server, television, etc. Together the PEGASOS and MORPHOS are the "CORE TECHNOLOGIES" of Genesi. 3. The next stuff... tied into smart cards (Trusted Community, Copyright Protection, etc.). More on this another time…;-) That is the basic game plan. The STB we are discussing is quite different than what has been attempted historically. The basic version does not have an uplink. It is very inexpensive and it is basic in form and function (but as much for less, remember the C64 slogan was: “it is not how little it costs, it is how much you get”). Interactivity comes through smart cards. This is a satellite television receiver with some memory. The smart card is used to enable elements of the signal. Authorization levels depend on subscription or payment per event/movie (pre-paid or pay-as-you-go). Of course, a more advanced version could be a base station for the eclipsis. Then there is the Psylent (formally Pega-shush)...a 24/7 ISP bundled home server that does not have anything to do with the Satellite DTV STB, but EVERYTHING to do with a "state of the art" Home Entertainment Center. Everything begins and advances WITH the Core Technologies, the Pegasos running MorphOS. We can profit from the core technology by adapting it to various "configurations" which will allow us to build the Company and the Developer base. When things are really stable, then there is the mass-market beginning with the sale of the OS/Application to Mac Users...then the hardware...etc. BUT, FOR NOW WE ARE JUST FOCUSED ON THE TECHNICALLY ORIENTED COMPUTER USER. NOW, take all this and combine it with some of the recent ideas we have been discussing with the Phoenix Developer Consortium (www.phinixi.com). Genesi and Phoenix will initiate a VA Software/SourceForge relationship. This will make it easy for Developers who might not want to be “part” of Genesi, but still associated closely with the hardware platform. Nevertheless, the opportunity is much more than an open source/Linux Development Community. Genesi owns the IP of the hardware AND the OS. We can leverage off both Open Source and Closed Source virtues while still capturing the valuable hardware revenue. We have decided this can be shared with members of Phoenix as Distributors/Integrators of a platform that is INITIALLY oriented to TECHNICALLY oriented people anyway. The sale of Pegasos machines configured with various potential OS's seems to be a unique revenue producing opportunity and MAYBE a "new" way of "selling" the computer...like a multilevel marketing scheme...ding-dong...its not the Avon Lady! It is the Phoenix Man with your Pegasos! We could develop a whole tiered system...when you recruit ten Phoenix Distributors you become a Phoenix Flyer! OK, we will not get too carried away, but you get the idea... We are just brain storming, but using www.genesisupport.com to "answer" the "silly" support questions, provide User Group Forums, and the latest OS/application upgrades seems like a good way to go. In the meanwhile, we will set up Phoenix members in a VA Software/SourceForge like relationship that evolves into unit sales and then maybe System Integrators/Service Providers (like the old LAN/WAN businesses). This could be a cool stroke to capture widespread interest once the publicity effort really kicks into gear...;-) We already have begun discussions with Phoenix members in New Zealand, the USA, Canada, the Czech Republic, and Japan. This grass-roots approach could hold some valuable benefits for a broader community. Please share you thoughts with us. Lastly, thanks to the Genesi Team who made CES a great experience for us. Have a look at some of the CES photos on the GenesiSupport pages. We have recently brought a number of very talented people into Genesi. They all deserve recognition and they will be getting it soon. Best regards, R&B. | ||
| Janne |
| ||
| JPQ |
| ||
| Janne |
@gz It is just a "cultural thing"...have you ever seen Christmas letters in America? :-) @Robert As we said months ago, we will support any A1 Distributor who wants to work with Hyperion to do this. The www.pegasos-uk.com guys are ready to do it. Maybe, Ron at Computer City too. The idea is to have the Pegasos there to support multiple development communities (and draw them together). Best regards, R&B | ||
| KimmoK |
Näkyy bb ottavan opikseen & paikkaavan pilvilinnaansa sitä mukaa kun siihen ammutaan lisää reikiä. (Genesi Busy -postaus) (rivien välistä voi nyt lukea että MorphOS:ää ei tule vuoden 2003 aikana muille kuin pegasoksille ja muutenkin näyttäisi että MOS sidotaan rautaan, rautaan jonka myymisestä kaikki raha saadaan ... mutta seuraavassa jaksossa tarina varmaan muuttuu) | ||
| Janne |
| ||
| Janne |
We just posted this over on www.amiga.org and decided to post it here too. In part, we are trying to understand how many people use both sites and what the cross-readership is. For ANN we will add a few more notes specific to this thread below. The amiga.org post is #10 in the “Genesi is Busy!” News Item. ____________________________________________________________________ Hi Elektro, “57 channels and nothing on…” as you probably know comes from a song by Bruce Springsteen. The song was released around ten years ago. The comment referred to the American cable industry and the growing number of channels cable systems could deliver into the home. There were more channels, but no “decent” programs. Cable changed the nature of television in the US (and other places too), but there were/are still many places that receive only three or four good UHF and VHF signals and “cable” has to physically reach its destination to provide a signal. Satellites are different. Today, a satellite television provider can easily provide 200+ channels. Echostar for example can reach all the US from four satellites and 91 frequencies. The same goes for various providers in Europe and the Asian/Pacific region. The whole issue here is really “programming” or in computer-speak, “software.” We have computers, televisions and telephones to do something with them. Over the years, our habits have not changed, we just wanted more selection or at least just what we wanted when we want it. The telephone has evolved in the home from a “handset” attached by cord to a base station, to a “portable” telephone we can walk around the house with, to a mobile telephone, etc. There are countries in Europe with more mobile telephones than fixed telephones. Things changed, but people keep talking to each other. It is just getting increasingly convenient. Has the conversations improved?…;-) Would you consider a SMS message a “program?” SMS messages represented more than 25% of the total revenue of Wireless Operators in Europe in 2001! Sounds like something! Communication between two people is most basic form of “programming.” The Internet is full of “nothing on” too. We need search engines to find what we want, because there is vastly more to surf than surfers. And, the Internet sea expands daily. You would be surprised to see some of the research we have seen about how people “change channels” on the Internet – it often is strikingly familiar to multi-channel television usage. The bottom line is the Pegasos as a hardware platform (remember that is where the money is initially) needs “programs” to get people interested in using it -- the more interesting and different things that will work on the Pegasos, the better. More programs not classified as “nothing” may create demand from more buyers. If the cost of implementing those programs is less than the profit generated from the demand, we have a business. It seems to us that the Pegasos can offer something interesting and unique to the market, but it takes two phases. First, we need to broaden the options of what is possible technically and then when things are ready re-focus on specific, but much larger markets. That is why we like the Phoenix association – it is an organization of like-minded technically smart people who can help us do that. For example, bringing Pegasos/MorphOS to the point were it can flawlessly operate as an Internet linked computer or a television receiver/DVD/whatever player and then (step two) promoting it to the high home entertainment center market. The television is what is always is, maybe bigger with better sound, but still a device to watch (did you ever stare into a campfire? – that was the first television!). In the meanwhile, the keyboard and the remote become more closely related and Google starts to feel like a program guide. You see, nothing new, just the same stuff better, more easily, etc. It is not “crap” Loki1, it is a strategic direction. The real question is can we pull it off. Or, how about a handheld video telephone for that basic “programming” niche…;-) So far, a component supplier has seriously delayed are plans. The facts and difficulties are well known. Nevertheless, we have continued to march to the objective we have set for ourselves and the Pegasos is being used by people who did buy it and do like it. For example, a testimonial was recently posted at GFX-Base and we do receive plenty of complements directly from users via email. The Pegasos and MorphOS are being used and are being improved. We expect this process to continue. By broadening the opportunity to other development communities increases the potential of the platform, the OS and the possible applications too, as something has to be “on” if we are going to be successful. Simultaneously, we have been trying to get the word out. We have attended shows all over Europe and the biggest one in the USA. We have show plans for the Spring/Summer and User Groups are starting to pop up everywhere. We will gladly support demos as we did a couple of weeks ago in Finland – just ask! It is time for the competitive and divisive nature of this community to dissipate. Whatever was before has past. Genesi has no competition. There are others who are working on similar projects, good luck to them. The only competition we have is with ourselves to do our best to make Genesi successful. It is time to clean things up around here – forget the petty arguments. There are lots of new people that are starting to stop by for a closer look and the “programming” here needs to look good. Sincerely, R&B ____________________________________________________________________ @nihilvor What is the “hype” here? What is your more fully considered opinion? Could you expound a little? If you have something intelligent to say, we are interested in hearing your opinion. @Anonymous 9/29 What is it that you do not understand? We have absolutely nothing against OS4 on the Pegasos. Any dealer with OS4 properly licensed can load and sell it on a Pegasos. What are we missing? Once we sell the Pegasos a distributor or a user can do whatever they want with it. You won’t see a EULA from us resisting that. @Anonymous 10/29 Good ideas. What we are not doing, can you do? Want a job? @Senex We are testing a couple of possibilities. It is too early to call that card, but we just wanted everyone to know we are not just sitting on our hands waiting. @Alex We think you are mixing detailed technical information with general marketing statements. If you really want to have a technical discussion come to the next Developer Conference. BTW, we saw Dave Haynie’s post on the Phoenix thread too. Technical discussions are great, but really miss the point. It not technology, it is what you do with it! Our broad stroke descriptions are just that. You and Dave may be missing the fact that it is not the Pegasos or the OS that will enable the success of Genesi -- as an end in itself, it is a means to an end. You have also seemed to confuse some of the statements. IBM announced samples for the 64-bit PPC CPU would be available for March 2003. We never said there would be a Pegasos II by then, just that there would need to be as the CPU evolved. @priest That is more like it. You had us worried, we were starting to think you were becoming a fan…;-) @Max Thanks! @Gerrit It was just an idea. In any case, we have to find someone to do it…we are not familiar with UnrealTournament, but are headed in a mass-multiplayer game direction. There are over 2000 MorphOS “we have a present for you” T-Shirts in circulation…and 99.9% of them were given away for free! Have to get some sleep! R&B @another Mr. Anonymous During the Betatester period our statements went along those lines: “MorphOS is progressing and we are moving toward the commercial release. “ They were short and simple statements. Remember? Do you also remember all the screaming for a Feature List, which after that was posted it all started again for some statement of strategic direction. Ergo, there will always be criticism for whatever is done, it is normal. The best solution for us would be to receive constructive criticism. It is too easy to just yell from the stands at the players on the field. Next time, maybe you could offer a solution to the issue you have identified. Anyway, more to the point about MorphOS. Ralph (Laire) is the brain at the center of the OS to use the analogue of the human body (or organ to organ system for our Pegasos Biologists out there). Ralph has a responsibility and so does everyone else, “from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body…” Thankfully, the structure is in the OS and an extraordinary amount of serious thought went into developing the foundational concepts and a plan for its future. Now, we are working to pull all this together and channel the talents and motivation of varied and separated developers, designers, marketers, managers, and interested users into a collective whole that is greater than the sum of its parts. This does not happen overnight and it usually advances in fits and starts with lots of trial and error. We are not damaging the platform to any serious users or interested parties. The core MorphOS development team is moving along fine and the serious people will buy a system and use it as they desire. Interested users will ask questions – we hope we can find the answers for them. We are still getting all this organized and looking for people to help us do it. That is why we have been so busy lately on the threads (and it is working). As a step in that direction we are also trying to change the nature of these threads and bring them to a higher level. We are looking for a place where a new user can come and find answers without being called a “lamer,” as much as we are looking for ideas and people to help build the future Ralph and the rest of us are working towards. @Joanna We are glad the Alt-party was successful. Now we need to focus on the Assembly Demo Party (http://www.assembly.org). We would like to sponsor a couple of Demo Teams and a website, as J-P Jokela suggested, “where people can announce projects, show progress (screenshots,demos), ask for help, share ideas etc. And maybe also host projects, or at least link to their websites elsewhere...” We know there is a motivated team in Poland ready to go. Can we organize a few more? The Demo Scene is something we need to bring back. A virtue of the demo long gone from the PC or Mac scene today is the optimization of the code. Good demos were small and produced miraculous effects. This lends itself to mobile devices…;-) Maybe, we could use www.pegasos.org for that site. We will talk to the owner. Have a nice weekend, R&B @Strobe I am responsible for the English -- an American living in France to long! Actually, what we were trying to say is that regular Mac Users are probably not going to go out and buy another OS for their Mac. Assuming they already have their Mac, they would probably be afraid to mess up what was already on their hard drive, as they would need to add a new partition, etc. I had YDL on my Mac for months and to be honest it was not "user friendly" either in installation or use. What we were trying to suggest is that MorphOS could run on the Mac from somewhere other than the host hard drive of the computer. Having said that, we took this one step farther trying to recognize that it is what people can do with their computer that attracts them not the OS itself. That is why we suggested that it would be application (probably game) driven. The OS is on the CD too and the game runs from there. Naturally, this would be the most interesting when driven by an online portal to a mass multiplayer game “coliseum.” Is that more clear? Thanks for the questions. @Amway We were just trying to throw in a little humor. But, seriously, think about the “Phoenix Man” concept – talented people, low cost, highly motivated, profits enough to support growth (for Genesi and Phoenix). It could be a very interesting way to raise awareness and develop market growth. It could also tie into User Group development, etc. The “Phoenix Man” would have special support to become User Group Leaders, etc. @Found on another thread....The Radio Shack idea is actually a good one. I had a meeting at Tandy in Fort Worth in 1990 trying to get them to carry the Cableshare set-top box. You may remember that Tandy had a CD-I player before Philips. Anyway, the staff is generally very knowledgeable and the store management training program used to be excellent. Sincerely, R&B Thanks Senex! @Amway Allan Havemose pointed us to the Eclipse (not eclipsis, but probably the same inspiration). Eclipse (www.eclipse.org) is an IBM sponsored/initiated project and we have been on the mailing list for nearly two years. We like the Project. It could be very relevant to the Pegasos one day. Sincerely, R&B Great! @Joanna www.pegasos.org can be used to host the Demo Scene site discussed earlier. Any Sceners can contact us -- lets get a "gathering" going a pegasos.org. Regards, R&B --- Kronos Defender of the Faith Joined: 2002/2/16 Posts: 1956 Klingon embassy in Germany Online! Subject : Re: Where can i get MorphOS? Posted : 2003/1/25 16:37 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Three options: 1. You use the stoneold beta (somewhere on the net don't ask me). No Ambient more bugs less features than the Peg-version and will start to crawl after 30 minutes. 2. You wait for a current version to be released. This is supposed to be (allmost ?) free, but since it would also bring a bigger and not so fanatic audience to the OS Genesi have to be sure that it runs o.k. on all those countless different HW-configs you might get on a "classic". 3. You develop interseting SW, and you might get a current dev-version or maybe even a Pegasos for free. bbrv Hobbyist Joined: 2002/11/5 Posts: 63 Subject : Re: Where can i get MorphOS? Posted : 2003/1/25 16:39 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Good advice Kronos! (lets see what happens next!) R&B @Kronos We do make a profit on the desktop machines, but we re-invest it because we see a bigger future (and we need help on the projects you mentioned!) R&B | ||
| Janne |
Sorry Kent, your email was lost in email nirvana. We knew someone had sent us a question about this, but between our two computers we can no longer find it, now your post... Allan Havemose worked on a basic version of the JVM until September of last year. His wife had a baby last Spring and she did not feel comfortable with Allan routinely traveling to Europe. He stopped working on the project and took a new job where he now lives in California (he moved out of the Valley). In the meanwhile, Richard Lipes from SGI and later Gateway took over, but before he could continue he needed a working Pegasos. Allan had given his Pegasos to Richard, but it still had all the Betatester bugs. When Gerald was with Mai in October, Gerald and Richard met. Richard received a good overview, but could still not progress. As you may know, Richard joined us at CES. Finally, Richard has a working Pegasos and has begun porting a Linux version to the machine first. That is the status. Interested in helping? Best regards, R&B The same thing was posted twice, so we just edited it to this. Sorry, Wayne not sure why that happened. In the meanwhile, this discussion is moving along faster at ANN (same title). We think it does have something to do with the way the News Items are on the page. But, as we said somewhere else here earlier, the Forums here are very useful -- good stuff stays active and fresh, bad stuff disappears quickly. Best regards, R&B http://amiga.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1688 | ||
| Janne |
Christoph Gutjahr has ask these basic questions: 1. Is the GRexx a Bplan design and DCE only have a license? 2. Hyperion do not have the necessary documentation, is this true? If yes, why? The G-Rex (1200, 4000D and 4000T) was a Phase5 product that saw success in the final period of Phase 5. Phase5 bankrupted early in 2000. With this all the IP passed into the hands of the bankruptcy trustee. That is unfortunately where the story ends. DCE did have a license to make the product, but bplan has no legal basis to continue to produce or develop this product. Contrary to the common misconception even though some of the same players are involved, Phase5 and bplan are NOT the same company. Does Hyperion have the documentation? Ask them. Certainly, bplan is not responsible to provide this documentation (and legally cannot). Troels Ersking has thankfully been very specific in his questions: "Ok, he mentions P5.. they are history and there's no real reason to blame them for anything unless you where in the unfortunate situation that you pre-payed them or had something in for repair or somthing like that." Well, we have actually posted a request a number of times asking people to send us an email accounting for their losses. From the two or three times we did this we have had two responses. In one case, the individual understood the situation and did not expect anything and in the other he could find no documentation. We offered them both discounts on the Betatester board. One of them took us up on the offer. "Your business partner DCE is another matter…" We were in Oberhausen for three days in December just before the Aachen show. We had the time to speak with Thomas Dillert about the past in the presence of Thomas and Gerald. We had also visited DCE in December 2000 and knew Thomas from our VisCorp days, so it is fair to say that we know him. Of course, the Pegasos is produced at DCE. DCE went through a difficult period and nearly bankrupted themselves in 2001 and it seems to us that DCE still gets significant blame for the demise of Phase5 and the inevitable after-effects, for which frankly DCE had no responsibility. With the end of Phase5 came the end of the warranty period. Plus, the expertise to repair the items in question is not free. If Thomas repaired anything he did so at his own cost. *every time I have called DCE, they have wasted my time promising to do stuff they never intended to do. DCE should not do that. ** You should clarify your connection with DCE as I am quite sure I am not the only person that don't want to give them a single euro. We use the DCE facility to produce the Pegasos. Thomas Dillert supports and works with us. Our component inventory is stored there. We pay them for the work they do on our behalf. If somebody buys a Pegasos they send their money to Genesi, not DCE. *** Maybe Germans have had better service at DCE and therefore still buy stuff from them. It's mainly people living far away that have had the biggest troubles with dce. Well, we cannot speak about what DCE has done in their past more than we have, but we have confidence in Thomas. He has done good work for us. We are not sure people understand what happened in the Phase5 bankruptcy and that DCE has no responsibility for this or for maintaining any product production or support facilities. A word about today… 1. Genesi (bplan and Thendic-France) have replaced every Betatester Pegasos that has been presented to us. We began to make the exchanges in Aachen and have continued to do so. That exchange in itself represents over 30000 Euros of swapped-out boards. It would be hard for anyone to say that we have not stood behind our product, whether DCE was involved or not. Keep in mind that an exchanged board is one less to sell and that the work required to add the April UNDER the Mai chip is not a simple task. 2. @Mr. Anonymous It would have been useful information to know whom “bbk” was and that he might have sent something to DCE. We have not mastered the clairvoyance to be able to make those determinations based on what we can read. Further, if that is true, he and others made these purchases and undoubtedly use the products they received. As mentioned already, DCE is not responsible for the demise of Phase5, nor is DCE required to carry forward support for the products of a bankrupt company. Finally, we did not "stamp" on anyone, rather “bbk” took this thread in a bad direction first with his mindless posts and second, with personally insulting statements. You can see we have no problem answering reasonable questions politely. About the Psylent…we are still writing the Marketing Requirements Document. Have any suggestions beyond what is on the website (http://thendipo.alias.domicile.fr/us/psylent.htm)? We are all ears! We can continue this discussion here and we will do our best to answer all questions. Sincerely, Raquel and Bill http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1043511702&category=web&start=1&19 | ||
| Janne |
We understand the dynamics here and before we launch on the next big marketing push on OSNews we want to understand the best way to channel the interest online via these sites. We would especially like to thank David and Juergen who manage this site. It is a great site and you two do great work. Thanks for updating the side columns -- it really looks good. Best regards, R&B http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&nid=199 | ||
| Joanna |
| ||
| Janne |
| ||
| Joanna |
Toisaalta.. muistelen kuulleeni että niitä BT systeemejä olisi ollut kaikkiaan joku 1000 kpl on tuo hinta aika alhainen. Siis vaikka kyse olsi kuinka massakorjauksesta niin tuskin se sentään 30E/levy onnistuu. Ehkä se on siinä ettei bbrv ole jaksanut laskea asiaa taskulaskimen kanssa. Tai ai vaan halunnut antaa liian tarkkoja lukuja. | ||
| Janne |
@ Anonymous #46 We negotiated back and forth with Amiga Inc. for a license to the "classic" OS. We could not come to a mutually agreeable terms. It is not a question of a license being "denied," it is rather that we could not come to an agreement. There are plenty of opinions on why that did not happen (but, there are really only two that effect the situation -- the two parties concerned). We did achieve and agreement for AmigaDE. We will see were that leads... Recognizing the difficulties between Genesi and Amiga Inc., we suggested a third party deal with this. Originally, we thought the best candidate would be Eyetech as they were a party to the OS4 Development Agreement (with Hyperion and Amiga Inc) and a hardware vendor. This idea was not well received. It could be someone else – for example, the www.pegasos-uk.com team or Computer City. In both organizations the key players have been involved with the “community” for some time and neither have too much bias against them from either side of the discussions. Sincerely, R&B Dear Markus, no worries. We did not take it that way, but thanks for mentioning it. Might as well take this opportunity to say something else…;-) @all concerned Developing OS4 and tuning it to the G-Rex, the A1, or whatever else does take time and money – not to mention decent programming skills. It is not really fair to put this burden on Hyperion (maybe you did not intend to do this). Probably the greatest attribute about this community is the level of technical skills found in the “regular” user. Isn’t there another way around this situation? Just out of curiosity, how many G-Rex users are there really out there? Regards, Raquel & Bill | ||
| KimmoK |
Ei kait Genesi laske tuolla periaatteella sitä 30 000 summaa... tai jos laskee niin vielä on paljon työtä jäljellä. Mutta saapa nähdä koska saavat ne 800 Linux käyttäjille myytyä emolevyä korjattua. | ||
| KimmoK |
Jaa, minun nähdäkseni jo osoittautui että olin oikeassa. bbrv syöttää puppua ja muuttaa sitä tarpeen mukaan (kuten on tehnyt jo morphos-news.de:n puolilleen). Jos ei bbrv:n ääni muutu kellossa, homma alkaa jonain päivänä potkia takaisin. Olen yllättynyt että jotkut nielevät nuo puheet pureksimatta, vaikka olisi luullut että siperia(tässä tapauksessa AmigaInc ja McEven) olisi opettanut. | ||
| Janne |
Thus, in Reply to comment 79… Certainly, this was not Alan Redhouse making these remarks. Our discussions with Alan date from 2000 when he met Raquel and I with his son in Aschaffenburg to discuss the future of the market, our extensive discussions with Amiga Inc. (and Tao), and the product we had been developing at the time, the SmartBoy (now known as the eclipsis). It was for this product initially that we sought and obtained an AmigaDE license from Amiga Inc. Our friendly discussions continued throughout 2001, as Alan sought to induce Escena to success in an earlier version of the “A1.” In November 2001, Eyetech, Hyperion and Amiga Inc. signed the agreement that remains in effect today. It was a big surprise to us. In the meanwhile, a PPC based mainboard was developed by Mai, which was much later labeled the “A1.” Alternatively, the Pegasos was also developed. Theoretically, both products were ready in November 2001. However, unable to reach an agreement with Amiga Inc., we decided to eliminate any dependency on the classic Amiga Operating System. This probably delayed the release of the Pegasos a year to this community (excepting the problems with the old Articia), but it created a wholly independent product in terms of the intellectual property, MorphOS. Today, there are two PPC based mainboards and soon two unique operating systems running natively in the PPC environment. At the A-Expo in France in August 2002, Raquel and I sincerely ask Alan face to face if he would be interested in distributing the Pegasos. This conversation actually led to us being characterized in less than a friendly fashion on the A1 Mailing List by Alan himself. We nevertheless attempted the offer again on various public threads to further demonstrate our intent. These are facts. If you read the original posts you will see they actually make a lot of business sense. The margins we offered are greater for Alan and the prices lower to the buyer. We thought it was an all around win for everyone (even Mai as they would still sell the same amount of chips). We still think if we could just focus on the business opportunity this solution would still make the most sense, but it does not seem to be moving this way. As for the insinuations about Gerald personally, these are not the comments of a knowledgeable businessman or someone who understands German Bankruptcy procedures. Of course, Gerald was involved significantly in Phase5 and is today in bplan/Genesi, but this does not blur the distinction between the two legal and very different corporate situations and his responsibilities in both cases. More discussion is not necessary, but it seems like a good opportunity to remind all readers that if it was not for the hardware developed by Phase5 there might not even be a “community” today. Certainly, the OS4 development itself has depended on the legacy of Phase5. As to the further remarks about Thomas Dellert (sorry about spelling that wrong the first time Thomas), this may or may not be true. However, again, it seems important to point out that if Phase5 filed a bankruptcy petition while in debt to a landlord, the landlord would be entitled to seize whatever he had in his possession to recover the outstanding debt and dispose of it as he could. The period between when a Trustee is appointed and the filing of the petition can take weeks. It can be a confusing period. There is nothing fraudulent about the situation described. Finally, Mr. MonkeyOS and all you other childish cowards: please grow up. If OS4 is ready and the new Articia works well, do you really want new people coming here to read this trash? The same goes for the MorphOS side of the argument. We are sure if one side can avoid disturbing the other we might all be able to co-exist here. The “A” stands for Alternative now, not Amiga, but we do share the same “spirit.”. We will need as many new people as we can to attract to either OS or mainboard to be successful. For example, it would be great if we could attract BeOS developers and users to this site – many started off with Amigas. There are plenty of others. We are seeing this already through the Phoenix Developer Consortium mailing lists. We are drawing solid developer interest and experience to the Pegasos. That plan is definitely working. Our offer to G-Rex owners who sent boards to DCE and never received them back still stands. Two more people have written us since the first post we made in this thread. We are pleased to be working with DCE and they are doing a fine job for us. Certainly, there are a few happy Pegasos users out there that will confirm this...;-) Best regards, Raquel and Bill | ||
| Janne |
>pureksimatta, vaikka olisi luullut että siperia >(tässä tapauksessa AmigaInc ja McEven) olisi >opettanut. Sano suoraan vaan, jos minusta puhut. Näytänkö että nielen pureksimatta? Juuri yllä mietiskelin tuota lukua joka liittyi B1-levyjen määrään ja siihen että onkohan niitä vähemmän kuin on annettu ymmärtää? Mutta se siitä, minä luen ja minä tulkitsen. OS4:n osalta Friedenit ja Hermans tekivät taas itsestään melkoisia klovneja JOS Yorisin tiedot pitivät paikkansa. Tämä on se mistä puhun. Ei oteta vastuuta vaan kierrellään sitä epämääräisillä "don't believe the naysayers" -tyylisillä kommenteilla. Vaikka olisi totuus! Kriisiviestinnän sääntö yksi: Ota vastuuta. Älä kiertele sitä. Minä annna Bill Buckille ihan saman tilaisuuden kuin annoin McEwenille (kaksois-v). Toki Siperia on opettanut monella tasolla, mutta tulkitsen silti asioita eri tavalla Bill Buckin puheissa kuin Bill McEwenin puheissa. Buck ei ole ansainnut tulla tulkituksi patologisena valehtelijana, mielestäni. Jos joskus toisin todetaan ja todistetaan, sitten teen niin myös hänen kohdallaan. Toistaiseksi menestys puhuu toista kieltä. Vain siksi että minulle on kerran valehdeltu ei tarkoita että kuvittelisin kaikkien olevan valehtelijoita. Ja tällä hetkellä pidän Amiga Inc. & co.:ta suurimpana syntipukkina tässä sopassa... Tämäkin tapa miten Earlybird-ostajia roikotetaan mukana OS4-lupauksilla ja kieltelyllä on (vaikka se ilmestyisi huomenna) todella epäilyttävää. | ||
| KimmoK |
>>pureksimatta, vaikka olisi luullut että siperia >>(tässä tapauksessa AmigaInc ja McEven) olisi >>opettanut. >Sano suoraan vaan, jos minusta puhut. Olen huomannut epäilevän/arvelevan pohdintasi muutamissa paikoin (viimepäivinäkin). Tarkoitin ANN:ssä esiintyviä "Upeeta, mahtavaa!" kommentteja noihin Buck:n postauksiin. ((tuli kyllä mieleen että tuossa siperia kohdassa voi vetää vaarallisia johtopäätöksiä, koetin tehdä eron "siperia opettaa" sloganiisi tuolla omalla selventeelläni "(tässä tapauksessa AmigaInc ja McEven)")) "Tämäkin tapa miten Earlybird-ostajia roikotetaan mukana OS4-lupauksilla ja kieltelyllä on (vaikka se ilmestyisi huomenna) todella epäilyttävää. " Jees. Mutta minusta tuo ei ole epäilyttävää vaan pikemminkin ilmiselvää. Toisaalla kuvailin eri valehtelujen tasot joita olen havainnut Amigalandiassa. Kaava toistaa itseään aina samanlaisena. Valheita paikkaillaan uusilla valheilla jne... kunnes joko tuote viimein tulee ulos tai valheista jäädään niin pahasti kiinni että maine menee... Genesii porukalla jostain 2/2002 alkanut valkoisien valheiden kierre katkesi kun pegasos tuote viimein tuli myyntiin (ja mielestäni pieniä valkoisia & puolitotuuksia on taas alkanut tipahdella). Hyperionilla tuo kierre ei ole katkennut ja valheita on luriteltu pidempään, minusta he ovat taas tänään ottaneet askeleen huonompaan suuntaan ... jos Yoriksen jutut osoittautuvat paikkansa pitäviksi, on Hyperion tipahtanut lantaluukusta... vähintäänkin "mustalle" alueelle. Kehoittaisin itsesuojelumielessä olematta uskomatta mihinkään Ben H:n lausahdukseen lähiaikoina... kunnes jotain todellista näyttöä AOS4:sta saadaan. Ja Earlybord ostajille edelleen vinkkinä että ovat Linux emoa ostamassa, kunnes toisin todistetaan. | ||
| ääh |
ääh piti olla "olemaan uskomatta mihinkään Ben H:n ..." | ||
| KimmoK |
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amigaone/message/24752 En kommentoi. | ||
| Janne |
Tämä on siis se Alan Redhouse joka tekee mielellään businessta Bill McEwenin kanssa ja myy kuponkeja? Voi pyhä tehopyhyys... --- i Alan, surprised to see me lurking around here? We just want to keep tabs on you! Thank you for the mostly civil comments concerning our past encounters. Your memory for your audience is nevertheless highly selective and self-oriented. We have a different version of the same events. In any case, forget it. As a party to the OS4 Development you could have a significant impact on bringing OS4 to the Pegasos. We all know how easy it would be to do. We have MorphOS running on the AmigaOneG3 SE now. OS4 will be on the Pegasos one day, whatever you or anyone else does. It is the nature of the environment. Call us if you are ever passing through Paris...;-) Bill Buck | ||
| Joanna |
| ||
| Hooligan/DCS |
| ||
| KimmoK |
Tarkoittanevat TeronCX:ää, koska AmigaOneG3SE:ssä lienee MOS epäyhteensopiva bios... | ||
| KimmoK |
Subject : MorphOS official release! Posted : 2003/1/31 11:15 Hi there! Just a quick note (we can answer more thoroughly this weekend if needed -- we are just really busy today). Pegasos info from December was accurate then. We made more boards after Aachen and then again in January, but these were in small quantities and went to Developers and a few "important" customers. We will be making some more boards next week -- still in tens, not hundreds. We won't produce any more large quantities until we receive the next shipment of Articias. Concerning MorphOS...the OS comes with the Pegasos. This will be shipped as a bootable CD along with our DebianPPC distro and Mac-on-Linux. Today, we provide FTP access to all Pegasos owners for the latest updates. We did release a new ISO image just before CES. All this is INCLUDED in the Pegasos purchase. In the future, we will sell MorphOS alone, but this will be a strategy primarily directed at Apple computer owners and be "hidden" under an application (probably a game), running from a CD (or a plug and play device) and NOT the host hard drive (no partitioning required). We will work something out for other PPC based platforms too. As mentioned here and on ANN we already had MorphOS running on the basic version of the A1. Sincerely, R&B | ||
| Jon |
| ||
| JPQ |
 | ||
| Janne |
OK, Right now we still have some issues with one of the components and aren't making sufficient Pegasos boards to meet demand. However this will be sorted out one way or the other shortly and we'll have the factory Churning them out. With a nice new shiny Pegasos you'll get MorphOS and Debian Linux with MacOnLinux. The aim is to ship MorphOS according to the Features list here: http://www.blachford.info/morphos/morphos-full-features-list.txt At the minute MorphOS is not feature complete so you'll get the latest version and will continue to get updates until the feature set has been completed. -- Note: There will be an update to the Features list in the not too distant future. -- Nicholas Blachford, Speaking for Genesi. | ||
| KimmoK |
| ||
| Jon |
JPQ: uusia argumentteja?-) | ||
| Janne |
Tuo vastaa kysymykseesi aivan täysin. Kaikkia featureja ei vielä ole siinä mitä toimitetaan, ilmeisesti pian on ainakin siitä päätellen mitä eräs suomalainen tekijä aiheesta vihjaili - eli jotain uutta versiota tulossa pian. Olen samaa mieltä, tästä voisi tiedottaa paremmin. Mutta kaikki on silti tulossa päivityksinä ja päivityksiä tulee jatkuvasti - kyse on aika paljon mitättömämmästä lipsumisesta kuin siellä toisella puolella. Lipsumista kuitenkin, ei sitä sovi kiistäminen. | ||
| KimmoK |
Nicholaksen vastaus on kuitenkin jo paljon parempi kuin "the OS comes with the Pegasos". (en yllättyisi vaikka siellä FTP sitellä olisikin 100% featurelistan mukainen paketti, mutta ihmettelen miksi asiaa ei sanota suoraan, jos ei ole mitään peiteltävää...) | ||
| Joanna |
Ilmeisesti "the OS comes with Pegasos" pitäisi lukea että se kuuluu hintaan.. Tosin tietenkin pieni mainita siitä että kaikkia lisukkeita ei vielä ole paketissa mukana olisi kanssa kohteliasta olla. Itse en tämmöistä työn alla olevaa laitetta sokkona tilaisi. Eli minun suositukseni olisi että ensin se pitäisi nähdä ja sitten aktiivisesti seurata mitä on oikeasti tekeillä ja kuinka homma kehittyy. Siitä päivityspaketista en tiedä sen tarkemmin milloin tulee ja mitä kaikkea sisältää. | ||
| Terho Henriksson (admin) |
|