| Kirjoittaja | Viesti | ||
     Janne |
http://www.sigmasoft.com/.../msg01079.html | ||
| itix |
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| hooligan/dcs |
---------------------- Ilmeisesti kaveri on aika hakoteillä tai muuten vaan sekasin päästään. Ainakaan minä en tiedä ainuttakaan Pegasos2-konetta missä EI toimisi G4, puhumattakaan ettei se toimis yleensä. Tulikin ekana mieleen puhuuko tää kaiffa jostain ilmaisesta developer Pegasos 1-koneesta johon olis jossain luvattu G4. | ||
| hooligan/dcs |
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| KimmoK |
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| rturja |
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| hooligan/dcs |
Nimenomaan paskanpuhujana kaveria täytyykin pitää. Mikään ei toimi Pegasoksessa, toimivia G4 kortteja on vain muutama, Genesi USA on huijarilafka, Genesi konkurssikypsä etc. etc. ... mistä nämä tiedot ovat peräisin? Kun nyt sattuu henk koht tietämään kymmeniä ihmisiä kellä on Pegasos2 ja G4 jotka toimii vallan mainiosti.. on vähän vaikea lähteä uskomaan häiskän laukomisia. Varsinkaan kun ei löydy syytä uskoa oikeastaan mitään mitä hän kirjoitti, mies kun ei vaivautunut sen kummemmin laittamaan perusteita väittämilleen. Tietenkin, heti kun heebo postaa todisteita mitkä tukevat väittämiä, vedän omani takaisin ja totean että helvetti, näinhän se on. | ||
| JPQ |
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| Joanna |
Siitä en tiedä miten hyvin se BSD portti käytännössä toimi, jos niillä todella on ollut ilmaisena annettu vanhemman version Pegasos-1 niin se selittäisi paljon. | ||
| KimmoK |
>mistä nämä tiedot ovat peräisin? Seuraavassa mun arvauksia. >Mikään ei toimi Pegasoksessa, josse tarkoitti että OpenBSD:llä ei pegasoksessa toimi mikään ... tai että esim widows ei toimi siinä.  >toimivia G4 kortteja on vain muutama, Jospa niitä ei USA:ssa ole ensinkään ja toimiiks ne peg1:ssä, joka tuolla hemmolla voi olla ? >Genesi USA on huijarilafka, Kieltämättä hieman "overstatement" jos tilanne on se että yhteydet (vain) pätkii. >Genesi konkurssikypsä Tuota liene turha kummastella. Jos porukoille jätetään palkkoja maksamatta yms. niin epäilykset herää. Genesi joutuu syyttämään tuosta maineesta itseään. | ||
| Janne |
Sen sijaan en epäile, etteikö Genesin sekaisin oleva kommunikaatiotapa ole saattanut ärsyttää kaveria ihan perustellusti (ainakin jos henkilö, kuten näyttäisi olevan, on tyypiltään sellaista räjähtävää sorttia). BBRV on yrittänyt haukata ihan liian palan kakkua monesti ja heidän organisointikykynsä tai taitonsa ovat kokolailla syvältä. No, leikki jatkuu. Foorumeilla muutamat anonyymit "punaiset" juhlii ja ohittavat iloisesti viestin virheet ja huutelevat "couldn't agree more!" -läppäänsä. Ja gary_c puhui taas fiksuja. Huhumylly Genesi-huijauksista saa lisää vettä koneistoonsa ja pääsemme taas pelin seuraavalle kierrokselle. Ready... Fight? | ||
| itix |
Isot HW firmat ovat sitten asia erikseen. He vetävät developereita kuin pässiä narusta koska developereilla ei ole muuta vaihtoehtoa. OpenBSD:n tapauksesa Genesin täytyy tyytyä siihen että he ovat se pässi jota developerit vetävät miten haluavat. Jos sama olisi tapahtunut Macille niin OpenBSD-porukalla ei olisi muuta vaihtoehtoa kuin tyytyä kohtaloonsa. | ||
| itix |
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| Janne |
>Genesille. Vaikka resurssit ovat pienet niin >avainhenkilöt täytyy pitää tyytyväisinä. Vaikka >tuo Theo näyttääkin olevan kuumakalle niin >pienellä firmalla ei ole virheisiin varaa. >Laadun täytyy olla 110%, tuotetuen täytyy olla >110%, yhteydenpidon täytyy olla 110%. Agreed. Tosin BBRV:n tuntien he vain moittivat kaveria luottamuksen pettämisestä... BBRV tuskin on se demoni joksi väitetään mutta ranskisamerikkalaisesta luonteestaan eivät ole osanneet erkaantua kuin aniharvoin. Sääli että Genesi silti näyttää valovuosia paremmalta lafkalta kuin se toinen. Kertoo missä suossa uimme. | ||
| Janne |
>varmasti porukka pitää vain oikeutettuna että >pääsee itse välillä Pegasoksen kimppuun. Ehkä >hyvä näin vaihteeksi. Hardly. Eiköhän se kuitenkin olisi asiallista puhua asiasta, eikä siitä kuinka Pegasoksia on maailmalla vaan muutama eivätkä nekään toimi. Sen sijaan mielestäni on ihan asiallinen havainto että OF Pegasoksessa voi olla buginen. Samoin se, että Genesin pitäisi parantaa kommunikaatiotaan ja toimintamallejaan ASAP. | ||
| MarkoS |
Missä? Moobunnyn, Amiga.org:n, ann.lu:n ja Amigaworld.net:n pikaisesti katsoin ja... ??? | ||
| Janne |
ANN.lussa ja Amiga.orgissa ao. ketjuissa oli huutelua siihen suuntaan kuten itixikin ilmeisesti huomasi. gary_c puhui asiaa Amiga.orgissa. | ||
| Joanna |
Mutta kuten sanoit vaihtoehdosta ei ole paljonkaan lohtua tässä kohtaa. | ||
| MarkoS |
- Theo de Raadt says Pegasos Bad (28 viestiä)(Amiga.org) - OpenBSD support code for Pegasos to be removed? (28 viestiä)(Ann.lu) Näiden perusteella puheet "punaisten" juhlimisesta tuntuivat liioittelulta ..ja epäolennaiselta. ;-) | ||
| Janne |
Goes both ways, toki. | ||
| Janne |
"Posted by Bill Hoggett (80.43.204.247) on 25-Mar-2004 15:06:46 Leaving aside rudeness and confrontational attitudes, and also discounting ridiculous conspiracy theories regarding Genesi's rivals, this does however highlight one problem that has been obvious with both Pegasos and AmigaOne machines right from the start: They are systems built and designed with small resources, and constitute largely unproven technology - at least in part, but one failing part is sufficient to make the whole system fail. The companies behind them are also small and ill-equipped when it comes to supporting the adoption of their systems in critical business environments. De Raadt isn't the only one to have encountered problems getting support from Genesi - though in his anger he has clearly jumped to conclusions which are premature for the time being. The AmigaOne issues and subsequent cover-up are also quite well documented. How can anyone in their right mind invest considerable amounts of their IT budget in these systems and not lay awake every night wondering if he didn't just throw money down the toilet? After all the hype about capturing niche markets that need cool & quiet machines, are we seeing reality starting to bite?" http://www.ann.lu/...=1&55 [Edit: Rikkinäinen linkki korjattu. --Thoriel] | ||
| Joanna |
http://www.ann.lu/...view=1080281455 [Edit: Linkki. --Moderaattori] | ||
| Janne |
"Well, this nicely illustrates most of the problems in Genesi management and communication . . . and their consequences. As somebody peripherally involved (via the Phoenix Developer Consortium), I want to apologize to Dale, for what it's worth. I really hope Genesi can get its act together. -- gary_c Really, can this be salvaged? Do the people in charge realize what the problems are and can they fix them? We don't need grand plans or visions; we just need to see basic nuts-and-bolts repairs in communication and a *sincere* effort to deal with people honestly and with complete integrity. Lacking that, this company and its products are doomed. -- gary_c" | ||
| Janne |
"Posted by Johan Rönnblom (193.11.248.17) on 26-Mar-2004 11:47:23 I can confirm that there have been invalid cheques handed out in the US. Anyway, I don't think it's true that this is all just down to bad luck/Pretory bankruptcy, etc. There's also basic mismanagement here in my opinion. You just don't go on telling people "we'll pay you soon" when you don't have reason to think that will happen. Especially not to keen and motivated people like Dale. I tried to warn BBRV about this already in November last year that they had to get their communications straight or shit would happen. They didn't listen (I don't think they ever do). Just imagine for a moment that BBRV had told Dale already in November that "Sorry, we hit some *major* problems here and it's likely we won't be able to pay you for a while, please do all you can to get another income, we're doing all we can to solve this." We'll never know, but I bet the relationship today would be a whole lot better. But instead, BBRV have the attitude that the less employees know, the better, like "Hopefully they won't ever notice there's been any problems." So when there's no money, people don't get to know anything until they notice the missing transfer on payday. Sorry, but that's NOT the way to communicate properly. It's really exactly what you should do if your goal is to piss people off and turn them against you. Anyway, I do have good hope for Pegasos, both with MOS and with other OS'es, but alienating developers at this pace really doesn't help. :-(" | ||
| Janne |
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| Janne |
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| itix |
Joko Genesille voidaan soittaa kuolinkelloja? | ||
| Joanna |
Tuo kommunikaatio-ongelma on valitettavan laaja Genesillä. :-( | ||
| Janne |
>Joko Genesille voidaan soittaa kuolinkelloja? Mieluummin sitä kuin Amiga Inc.:n kaltaista showta vuositolkulla. Katsellaan miten käy... | ||
| Janne |
BBRV:n selityksiä. Tyypillistä - enkös ennustanut jotain tällaisia vastauksia. Polttavat siltoja mieluummin takanaan kuin käyttäytyisivät edes vähän nöyrästi. Kenestäköhän sellainen käytös muistuttaakaan... Mind you, en epäile etteikö edelleenkin BBRV saata saada hommaa hanskaan, laskuja ja palkkoja maksettua. Se ei niinkään ole huoleni, uskon että heillä on vaihtoehtoisia rahoituskanavia vähän eri tavalla kuin McEwenillä. Nämä ongelmat saattavat siis ratketa. Pitkässä juoksussa ongelma on mielestäni enemmänkin asenteessa - he eivät välttämättä ole mitään huijareita (enkä oikeastaan usko että ovat), mutta käyttäytyvät muuten paikoin sen verran vastenmielisesti ja siltoja poltellen että on vähän arvaamattoman ja vaikean oloista kuvitella kestävää bisnestä sen ympärille... Se luo epävarmuutta. BBRV ovat pahimmat FUDaajat Genesin suuntaan itse... | ||
| Janne |
>Tuo kommunikaatio-ongelma on valitettavan laaja >Genesillä. :-( Siitähän sinä ja minäkin varoittelimme BBRV:tä vuosi, puolitoista sitten. Eivät tainneet kuunnella meitä ja kaikkia muita maailmalla jotka samasta sanoivat. Ongelmasta teki pahemman Pretory-skandaalin myötä kuihtunut rahavirta, sitä ennen hyvin pyörivä bisnes vielä peitti kommunikaatio-ongelmaa mutta nyt se korostuu ja puree jalkaan entistä pahemmin. Siltoja ei yksinkertaisesti kannata poltella sillä tavalla kuin BBRV tekee. Bisneksessä ainakin itse uskon tiettyyn nöyryyteen. BBRV:n tyyli tuntuu olevan, että jos asiat menee jossain pieleen ollaan mieluummin "we never needed/loved you anyway" -asenteella. Muistanette vaikka Coyote Flux -kaksikon joka esitteli Pegasostakin Suomessa. Nykyisin heidän softiaan ei enää MorphOS:llä nähdä. Voin kuvitella että siinäkin ongelman taustalla oli Coyoute Flux -parin fanaattinen PowerPC-assembler-uskonto-kultti ja sitä myöten asenne, mutta voin myös kuvitella BBRV:n riehumassa "we don't need you" -tyylillä ja seurauksena taas muutama ihminen puhuu Genesistä pahaa, eikä tue platformia - sen sijaan että BBRV yrittäisi sopia riitoja ja erota ystävinä... No, mitäs meidän on siunattu Hermansin ja BBRV:n kaltaisilla tyypeillä. Ja McEwenin kaltaisilla sinisilmillä. Enemmän Gunne Steenejä ja Alan Redhouseja, kiitos. | ||
| Janne |
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| Janne |
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openbsd-misc&m=108027872117087&w=2 | ||
| KimmoK |
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| itix |
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| Janne |
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| mordi |
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| Janne |
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| KimmoK |
http://osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=6499 | ||
| KimmoK |
Muistelen nähneeni siellä myös Quardian ratkaisun, mutta sekin lienee nyt sitten menneen talven lumia. | ||
| Joanna |
The Genesi Side of the Story Post 1 of 2 By Paul Adams (IP: ---.lv.lv.cox.net) - Posted on 2004-03-28 15:22:20 Since I was dealing directly with our OpenBSD Consultant in his relationship with Genesi, I want to provide the rest of the story. This will be presented in two posts, because of the character limitation of an individual post. Our OpenBSD Consultant was brought on board to port OpenBSD as part of a plan to develop the Guardian in partnership with ShopIP and Diginexus. We worked towards this goal and ultimately displayed two Guardian products at the Information Security Show in New York City in early December 2003. At that point several things began to unravel. 1. Genesi uncovered information regarding ShopIP. I had met with John Johnson of ShopIP to outline the terms of a business arrangement prior to the InfoSec show and on December 7, 2003, proposed a letter of intent regarding that relationship. That letter included the terms he requested in our earlier meetings. During the InfoSec show, we discovered three things that were of concern: 1) there were questions about whether ShopIP actually owned the IP that they were trying to sell to us; 2) ShopIP was only three months old as a corporation and was talking about 5 years of development expenses; and 3) we received unconfirmed information that some members of ShopIP had criminal convictions not related to computer hacking. I posed these questions directly to John Johnson after the show and told him we needed clarification on these matters before we could proceed. I presented a series of due diligence questions to ShopIP on December 22, 2003. John Johnson's immediate response was that he would get me the necessary information as soon as possible. Then he wanted to only provide some of the information. I told him that the three questions noted above were the most critical. He said he would get me something soon. Instead, he simply asked for an immediate payment of over $2,000,000 for the Crunchbox, followed six months later by another $2,000,000 payment. This was so absurd and beyond the terms of any prior discussions that, on January 22, 2004, after receiving NO information from ShopIP about the any subject whatsoever, I told him that Genesi was no longer interested in pursuing an arrangement with ShopIP. Mitch Parker of Diginexus was aware of the reasons for the breakdown in discussions with ShopIP because I told him of them in telephone calls. When the talks broke down between Genesi and ShopIP, Mitch told me that, because ShopIP had a product and Genesi did not, he would continue in his association with ShopIP. He also told me if we ultimately developed the Guardian, to let him know and he would consider representing that product. Perhaps Diginexus has information about ShopIP not available to Genesi. Based upon the information available (or, rather unavailable) to Genesi, we simply did not feel comfortable in entering into a relationship with a company of questionable background (ShopIP), especially when the product was a network SECURITY product. No one associated with Genesi did any programming on the features of the Crunchbox. Someone has made an absurd assertion that we attempted to sabotage the Crunchbox with a logic bomb. Not only is it untrue, it makes no sense. Think about it - if Genesi intended to include the functionality of the Crunchbox in it Guardian product, why would it ever want to sabotage the code? Paul Adams Chief Operating Officer Genesi USA The Genesi Side of the Story Post 2 of 2 By Paul Adams (IP: ---.lv.lv.cox.net) - Posted on 2004-03-28 15:23:28 Part 2 2. Genesi experienced a severe and continuing cash flow problem, due to a variety of reasons. December paychecks were issued in anticipation of a wire that never hit the accounts. Normally, I wired money directly to everyone’s account as soon as funds were available. Because I was in NYC and could not perform the wire, I issued and FedEx’d the checks in anticipation of the wire. One check was written with the incorrect date, it was a mistake and explained as a mistake at the time. We have been struggling ever since to keep moving forward under difficult financial situations. Our OpenBSD Consultant was obviously aware of this situation. He communicated with me about his pay status on a regular basis. I explained the situation to him and others on many occasions both verbally and in emails. Other explanations came from Raquel & Bill. Despite making many threats to walk (the first one in an email dated December 23, 2003), our OpenBSD Consultant stayed on and continued to work on the OpenBSD port. Early on, our OpenBSD Consultant informed us that he needed information to develop certain drivers needed to have OpenBSD support of the 1 Gigabit Ethernet port on the Pegasos II. Our OpenBSD Consultant completed the port of OpenBSD to the Pegasos II on February 4, 2004 and he informed Genesi that he could not proceed further without the information he had requested regarding the Gigabit Ethernet port. We had been working to try to find a way to get him that information since early January. Unfortunately, it was covered by a non-disclosure agreement with Marvell and we were told we could not release that information to him. So, Genesi was in a bind; we could not complete the OpenBSD functionality needed for the Guardian without violating our confidentiality agreement with Marvell. From February 4th on, there was nothing our OpenBSD Consultant could do to help Genesi and nothing we could do to get the information our OpenBSD Consultant needed to proceed. The plan had been to convert Genesi consultants to employee status in January 2004. This conversion was necessary to enable a medical insurance plan. I personally negotiated with the insurance carrier. Because the consultants are scattered around the US, we could only find two carriers even interested in delivering a quotation. Those quotations came in too late to put any insurance in effect by February 1st. I obtained the necessary forms from a selected carrier on February 6th and passed them out to all the consultants to be covered. I needed the forms back by late in the month to complete the corporate application in time for a March 1st deadline. No one returned the forms in time, despite repeated reminders. Our OpenBSD Consultant did not return his until February 24th, which was too late to complete the corporate application and obtain coverage on March 1st. If benefits were so important, why did people not return forms in a timely manner? I am an uninsured diabetic with two artificial knees and probably want coverage more than anyone. This was not a scam, but a paperwork problem and the person complaining about lack of benefits did not even send back the paperwork in a timely manner. Our OpenBSD Consultant ultimately sent a resignation email on March 1, 2004. I responded that I understood his decision and accepted his resignation with regret. My hope was that we could part on civil terms and, if the financial situation changed, we could rekindle the relationship. Then Theo de Raadt decided to interject himself into the discussion. Theo had received a FREE Pegasos G3 from the original production run, for him to use to test OpenBSD. His board had the initial openfirmware problems associated with the first production run and he was not aware of the need to flash the bios before using the board. As a result, he rendered the board inoperable. Not his fault, ours. He was immediately sent a second FREE board with the upgraded bios. His initial dissatisfaction with the Pegasos was related to the first board, he made no negative comments after receiving the second board. Theo was not scammed with a bad board, he did not pay for it. He experienced a problem which was unfortunate and almost immediately repaired. Our OpenBSD Consultant informed us that he NEVER paid for any equipment, he will only work on a platform if he is given free equipment. Our OpenBSD Consultant had told us that Theo made his living selling OpenBSD and related products and did not compensate those members of the OpenBSD developer team that contributed to the code base. I thought Theo would have been interested in working out an arrangement whereby Genesi could reach a level of financial stability to at least be able to pay our OpenBSD Consultant for the services rendered. That was not to be the case. Once I started communicating with our OpenBSD Consultant about his resignation, Theo informed me that he would not return the broken board because he was holding it as part of our OpenBSD Consultant's unpaid compensation. We exchanged a couple of emails wherein he appeared to be more interested in sending insults than in finding a way to resolve the situation. I decided that it would not be productive to continue to have a dialogue with him. His most recent email to me was so insulting and threatening that Genesi made a decision that we would never develop a product using OpenBSD as long as Theo was the project head. He is much to unstable and irrational for any business to risk introducing a commercial product based upon his efforts. I have been associated with Genesi since December 2002. Genesi is not a sham company, but rather a struggling new company trying to introduce a new product into a difficult market place. We have introduced a mainboard, a bios and an operating system. What other company has attempted to introduce such a complex product in recent years? While everything may not mesh perfectly, it all works and is being steadily improved. Those with an open mind who have used the product know it is magnificent. We have problems to resolve and have made mistakes, but have never done anything malicious to anyone. Genesi will succeed and, ultimately, we will pay those who are owed money for services rendered to us. I have never been in a situation where people did not get paid and this situation will be no different. It may take time, but it will happen. I do not intend to engage in extensive dialogue on these matters on various lists, nor do I intend to provide further details of the Genesi corporate situation. There are two sides to every story and this is the Genesi side. Paul Adams Chief Operating Officer Genesi USA | ||
| hooligan/dcs |
Ainoa mihin uskon vilpittömästi on tuo "His most recent email to me was so insulting and threatening"-osio.. samaa olen kuullut muualtakin. Edelleen ei muuta sitä faktaa että palkkoja on maksamatta joka on no good. Tosin, jos jotkut tahot ovat tosiaan niin idiootteja että tekevät kuukausitolkulla duunia ilman palkkaa niin kait sitä ansaitsevatkin pienen läimäyksen päin naamaa lapsellisuudesta. Ilmaista työtähän tässä maailmassa saa tehdä vaikka hamaan loppuun asti jos niinkseen tulee. | ||
| Joanna |
http://news.com.com/2100-1016-997393.html?tag=fd_top Sitä en tiedä miksi rahoitus oli katkaistu. Tietenkin voi aivan hyvin olla ettei Darpa luota Theo de Raadt:in tyyppisiin leukojen loksuttelijoihin, mutta ennemmin uskoisin että noin merkittävän rahoituksen peruuntumisen takana on jotain oikeampaa syytä. (Siis Darpa on kaikkiaan tahoittanu projektia 2.3 Miljoonalla USD:llä, josta iso osa on jo käytetty) Siinä tosin Raadt on oikeassa ettei USA:ssa sananvapaudesta voi paljon puhua ... | ||
| Joanna |
"Kenen leipää syöt, sen lauluja laulat" |